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How about an Eclipse Plugin for your 4DGL language?

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  • How about an Eclipse Plugin for your 4DGL language?

    Eclipse is a VERY good development environment. Creating a 4DGL plugin for it would likely be less work than creating your Workshop product, as Eclipse provides all the editor and project support.
    I'd rather see you guys spending your time on the language, implementation, and support rather than writing Yet Another code editor.

  • #2


    There are also solutions for Notpad++ available but I didn't got them work, yet  :-( 

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    • #3


      Bump. I use eclipse for everything and i would love to get some 4dgl loving in eclipse.

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      • #4


        I have no idea what eclipse is, other than a vague recollection of evaluating it before the current IDE was born.

        In actual fact we have not written 'yet another code editor', we are using a commercialy available code editor that is used by many large corporations for their product, IDEs, etc.

        This code editor was far superior to every other editor that was evaluated.

        Just what is it that you are 'missing'?
        Mark

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        • #5

          • Function name/parameter completion.
          • More control over build process and compilation flags
          • Inbuilt language reference
          • Tokenized code tracking and error reporting
          • Ctrl-click on token name to jump to definition with back/foward browsing of jump chains.
          • Choice between fully managed/ant/makefile/scons build systems.
            Displaying multiple errors at a time and suggestions for fixesCode stepping for debugging.Being able to examine values of variables during code execution.Integrated version control (CVS, SVN, GIT, HG etc...)Portability between Operating Systems.IDE is translated to many other languages besides English
          You have essentially created a thin wrapper around C with a nicer syntax and only one variable type. It would be nice to have these things that we take for granted in modern IDEs. (It would be trivial to implement your language from a CDT extension point)
          I'm an embedded C guy by trade and I have NEVER seen the IDE you are using before in any product. I have watched Texas Instruments move from their own buggy, clunky, closed source IDE over to eclipse (CCS4) and get the support of a great community from it.

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          • #6


            Hmm, the majority of that list is not part if the IDE and/or would not be 'solved' by using a different IDE.

            Function name/parameter completion. (Have you tried CTRL-Space?)

            Inbuilt language reference. (Moving the mouse over function parameters gives help for them)

            Ctrl-click on token name to jump to definition with back/foward browsing of jump chains. (F12 does this for functions, find is preprimed with the text under the cursor)
            Mark

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            • #7


              Everything on that list is built into Eclipse. Whether or not you support certain features is your choice, however your assertion that the majority is not part of the IDE is patently false.

              Function name/parameter completion. - Did not know about ctrl-space, thanks for the info.

              Inbuilt language reference. - Text in the language reference assumes monospacing, is rendered with variable spacing. Text is non-scrollable, many function definitions have descriptions longer than the box allows.

              Ctrl-click on token name to jump to definition with back/foward browsing of jump chains. - nice, but inconvenient key placement IMHO.

              Also, a breakdown of the problems that would be "solved"
              • More control over build process and compilation flags
                • What goes on under the hood is black magic. engineers HATE black magic.
                • Inbuilt language reference
                  • Easily find correct function without tabbing out to manual.
                  • Tokenized code tracking and error reporting
                    • Modified CDT parser would tokenise/generate AST for you and provide support to the following services:
                    • Ctrl-click on token name to jump to definition with back/foward browsing of jump chains.
                      • Useful for programs with lots of includes
                      • Choice between fully managed/ant/makefile/scons build systems.
                        • Allow code to be built as part of a larger project, sharing definitions.
                        • Admittedly not so useful for you guys with a closed toolchain but a good example of features
                        • Displaying multiple errors at a time and suggestions for fixes
                          • Displaying a list of all errors reported by parser at once instead of fixing one at a time.
                          Code stepping for debugging.UI Provided, Extensible framework provided. (implement only the calls you support)
                          Wrapping GDB calls to a serial debugger is intermediate difficulty, but not impossible. not necessary using eclipse extension points.
                        Being able to examine values of variables during code execution.this would be fantastic, instead of overlaying text on the UI i'm testing...
                      Integrated version control (CVS, SVN, GIT, HG etc...)I cannot stress enough the value of good version control
                    Portability between Operating Systems.Depends upon your compiler, but can probably be run under wine.
                  IDE is translated to many other languages besides EnglishExpand your market to non-english speakers!
              Now i'm not saying you should scrap everything you have and bet everything on a new technology. Obviously the Tech you have works well for you. However if you were to bring a little bit of openness into your system, the people who love your product will do a lot of the work for you.

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              • #8


                Code stepping for debugging. Being able to examine values of variables during code execution.
                I think you need to pay more attention in classes, an IDE cannot provide such facilities when you are executing on another platform.

                It is only possible if the other platform can provide some sort of access / interface to obtain this information. It is not currently available on 4D displays.
                Mark

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                • #9


                  I don't mean native memory access/instruction trapping. I'm talking about the fact that you wrote the pmmc. the pmmc implements a soft core. BY ITS VERY DEFINITION you control the instructions being executed.
                  It would not be hard to implement 3 words of memory => each word is the instruction address of a breakpoint. each time the soft core interprets an opcode, it checks to see if PC is in breakpoint table. If so, pause and signal back over the USB interface. Then the debugger shows this to the user, interrogates pmmc for current variables from stack using debugging information emitted in compilation stage.
                  This is basically how all microcontroller debugging is performed except they have fancier hardware to interface directly with CPU. since your cpu is implemented in code, you can do this easier/faster.

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                  • #10


                    Unfortunately,
                    A) We don't have the codespace available to add this to the 'soft core'
                    And, perhaps more importantly
                    B) We don't want to sacrifice overall speed of the PmmC by that required code overhead.
                    Mark

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                    • #11


                      Engineers HATE black magic
                      Close, but no cigar.

                      Engineers MAKE black magic

                      Think of your latest gizmo and how boring (and potentially useless) it would be if its operation were transparent to all and sundry.

                      Think of your girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever and how much you love them because of their 'black magic'.

                      4D displays, along with 4DGL give you the ability to make 'black magic' even quicker than before, suddenly all you need is an I2C thermometer, a relay and some 4DGL code and you have a complete, modern, graphical, touch controlled, black magic fridge/freezer/oven controller.
                      Mark

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                      • #12


                        [rant on]
                        ...And after all of that, just about everything on twoolie's list is bloated-crap-ware that gets in the way, but is probably 'must-have' for an 'embedded C guy' who just LOVES that eclipse obscuring the buggy, spaghetti 'back-end' hiding under the pile of money I and some other fools would have to pay for the TI stuff, which allows me, for example, to waste my time and money for weeks waiting for an 'integration' fix so the damn CCS can actually program the complex, new TI hardware we got.
                        [/rant off]

                        That's great, 4DGL is fine for this low end stuff, but for heaven's sake -

                        4D, an assembler- please?

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                        • #13


                          sure, CCS is still not ready for primetime, but it's a hell of a lot better than what we had to use before.

                          Also, engineers hating and making black magic are not mutually exclusive. Most of us became engineers so that we would be able to understand the black magic that we hated, but in doing so became the black magic makers.

                          Also, it may be bloated crapware in your view, but i use it every day and find it invaluable.

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